Friday, November 4, 2011

looking for help

In my spare time, and with my presently limited resources, I have been searching for some texts, with no luck so far.  So I thought I would throw this out there in case anyone might have an answer, or a good lead. 

The Small Catechism of Martin Luther, as it has come down to us, includes a couple of sections which for various reasons are not included in the Small Catechism as it was published in the Book of Concord, and therefore I have found it very difficult to find the Latin texts of those parts.  They are the following:

1. The three questions on The Office of the Keys:
What is the Office of the Keys?
Where is this written?
What do you believe according to these words?
2. The Christian Questions With Their Answers (for those who intend to go to the Sacrament)

Obviously, these texts in English come down to our use in the Missouri Synod most directly from their German antecedents.  My hypothesis is that both of them also were in Latin use in the 16th and 17th centuries.  And I want to find them.  If anyone can help, I would be grateful.

7 comments:

Matt Carver (Matthaeus Glyptes) said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Matt Carver (Matthaeus Glyptes) said...

OK, I checked. These don't seem to be in Claius' 4-language edition, either.

Matt Carver (Matthaeus Glyptes) said...

I wonder if this is 17th c. "Institutes" on the Catechism matches the text satisfactorily. At least the first question is fairly close.

p. 364

Quid est potestas clavium?

Est, qua ministri ecclesiae ex mandato Christi peccatores poenitentiam agentes a peccatis absolvunt, impoenitentes vero ab ecclesiae communione ecludunt.


id=JeICAAAAQAAJ&dq=lutheri%20quid%20est%20officium%20clavium&pg=PA364#v=onepage&q&f=false

Matt Carver (Matthaeus Glyptes) said...

This catechism of Cranmer / Jonas is pretty close to the 3rd question, though set in a dialogue context:

Quomodo intelligis haec verba?

Ego credo, quicquid vocati ministri Christi ex divino mandato nobiscum agunt, praesertim quando manifeste flagitiosos, et impoenitentes, ex coetu Christianorum excludunt, et poenitentes ac resipiscentes absolvunt, quod haec omnia sint tam efficatia, rata, et certa, etiam in caelo, ac si Christus voce de coelo sonanti absolveret.

http://books.google.com/books?id=ZDIJAQAAIAAJ&dq=%22credo%20ut%20quando%20ministri%20christi%20nobiscum&pg=RA1-PA173#v=onepage&q&f=false


by analogy i would guess that the second question was posed, Ubi hoc est scriptum?

Dcn Latif Haki Gaba SSP said...

Thanks Matt, for this data. It's closer than I've come so far.

Timothy C. Schenks said...

Chytraeus' "A Summary of Christian Faith" (Catechesis 1568) has a brief section on The Keys that was originally in Latin. It was translated by Dr. Richard Dinda.

Dcn Latif Haki Gaba SSP said...

Thanks, Timothy.